Foreword:
I would like to thank fellow WP blogger Professor Taboo for jolting me out of my ‘I really Must Get Around To Writing That Faith-Based Post Before Lent Ends’ statis state.
In advance, if you are going to read this post you are strongly advised to study his recent posts Paul, Acts, Forgeries & Marcion* Parts I & II
When dealing with someone else’s position and their case is argued at length, it is my practice to Copy & Paste onto a Word Doc for reference and scale. Please note PT’s posts are 4,400+ & 3,800+ words long respectively. It is likely mine will go into some length too. Neither of us subscribe to sound-bites, emojis, GIFs or any other modern shorthand with such a weighty subject.
If you want to get involved set aside some time.
Warning:
This is not actually a rebuff to the above posts. It’s not even a word by word dispute over the evidence. Some might be disappointed I will not be addressing directly the topics raised. Expressed are words and thoughts and beliefs of mine which have been looking for an inspiration to come out in full flood. And here we are. Just read on
It is only fair to point out, the views you will encounter will be considered by some as heretical, blasphemous or as per Catholic Teaching ‘Relativism’ (which kinda puts me at odd with the current Pope. Never mind God will put me right at some stage). On the other side of the coin as some exasperated atheists said to me ‘You don’t know what you believe!’ or ‘You are just dodging the issue!’ or….To be honest I forgot the rest. They just didn’t like me being open minded Cosmically speaking.
Outline
It can be broadly stated that the first post deals with The Physical Side, for it encompasses Cosmology, History and Quantum Physics. These are all areas which contain elements of physical evidence yet are also with uncertainties and speculations. The second post will involve my views and criticisms of Theological and those Social elements which cross over.
The whole comprises An Overview, Four Perspectives and a Summary. These will break down as follows:
One Theistic Cosmological Overview (Read here)
Historical Perspectives (Read here)
Scientific Perspectives (Read here)
Theological Perspective (Next Post)
Social Perspective (Next Post)
The String Theory Summary. (Plagiarising from Quantum Physics. Tying the four perspectives all together) (Next Post)
One Theistic Cosmological Overview:
My belief is that if you are going embrace a theistic belief you will be in the area of accepting a Supreme Being and Creator. Since you are therefore saying this Supreme Being was responsible for All That Is, Was and Ever Shall Be, then you need to consider dealing with a very, very large concept and be ready to view from more than one direction and discipline. You should also have an outlook which will endeavour to encompass a great deal and be very flexible.
To begin with let us look at one simple request.
Whether you are theistic or atheistic can you take someone of the opposite view to a location in this 14 billion year old, (though there is work out there which argues 26+ years old) 90+ billion light year in observable diameter Universe and say
‘Look this is where My God is. There we are. Case proven’
OR
‘This where your God should be but isn’t’. Case proven,’
Well? Can we, either side of the argument? No of course we can’t. We have garnered a rough idea of the Universe based on a variety of investigations, but neither has incontrovertible proof to answer my request. And that is where Faith / Belief comes in. To walk the indefinable area of Human thought in which a concept is held to in the absence of solid, definite physical evidence.
Some might promptly argue that I will be dodging issues, shrugging and saying ‘I don’t know’ and just repeating ‘stuff’.
Not so.
When addressing a such a vast subject of the belief in a Supreme Deity, the necessity of brining a myriad of disciplines to the discussion is vital, lest we get out of focus. There is the likelihood on this side of Life that parts of this subject cannot as yet and may not ever be proven. Here is where Faith or Belief come in. And on all sides of the argument.
We cannot physically prove, but we can believe.
Historical Perspectives
History is a powerful teacher, also a remorseless one, laying bear uncomfortable facts which do not suit those who prefer matters neat and tidy. The latter aspect is an important facet to keep in mind because at some stage all of us will always try and bend history to suit our ideas. The more objectively minded will to seek out details to argue or question a point of view and deal with the matter analytically. Others will try and deal in bare facts to leave the rest up to the reader, but that is a near impossibility; to repeat we all tend to bring our own thoughts and agendas to the debate.
At its basic Human History works like this. A does something. B reacts to what A did. C gets involved either because of A or B. Then D turns up probably because of what A, B and C are doing. After that it is likely E. F, G, H and so forth get involved. Meanwhile you get alliances such as Ab’s or Ba’s etc, etc. With all this laid out before an observer it is only natural to initially see things through their own eyes.
Yet History is a collection of evidence, and one glorious aspect is that new or forgotten evidence is being constantly uncovered for examination. Even the absence of evidence carries a value all of its own. However, whatever be it evidence or none, that will be open to interpretation. One thing however is certain do not take a dramatisation as fact and tread wary of legends or a folklore. Nor read one historian’s account and say ‘That is all I need to know’. Remember those As, Bs, Cs, Ds and so forth? Who is telling you what A did? And Why? Keep your antenna and radar tuned.
The groundwork is laid out. I will now look at the question of the Christianity and give you my…I repeat MY opinion, and in consequence translation.
Now the original starting point for Christian Belief is contained within the Old Testament, which in turn originates from a Hebrew source and following the New Testament which contain four accounts of Jesus Christ’s Life and Ministry until his mortal death then resurrection. The New Testament also contains the subsequent accounts of the followers of Jesus’ and their writings, ending with the mystical Book of Revelation.
Before proceeding further, again it is necessary, vital in fact to bear in mind the following
The OT is a collection of works. Some are the written versions of oral accounts. Some are commentaries on a particular time with a religious take. Others are the accounts of the experiences, life and times of a prophet. Others are essentially instructions for the time and the circumstances for an orderly society of the time. It should also be borne in mind that within these were poetical approaches in an endeavour to encompass at attempt to understand a cosmic or philosophical issue; while some will be takes on histories. And the whole covers a span of centuries. The OT also differs from, arguably its forebear the Hebrew Bible.
When approaching The NT, it is essential to bear in mind the four gospels are differing approaches. There are three Synoptic Gospels, Mark, Matthew and Luke which are similar in structure and narrative but differ because of their intended audiences. Mark being the earliest, a bare account for others, Matthew intended for a Jewish readership and Luke for a more cosmopolitan readership. John stands slightly more apart as it has esoteric theme and maybe be later. There then follows those accounts of the activities of followers of the new faith and their own letters and that ‘The Book of Revelation’. (not ‘Revelations’)- whosever might believe that is a literal prophecy might well consider the following:
For the purposes of the Historical it should be borne in mind that these works have been through several translations of language before they reach whatever, for the sake of brevity English version you are looking at. Therefore, remember that each translation will have its own assumptions and evaluations as to what ‘that’ word or phrase meant. To go around with a highlighter and sticking bits of paper in selected pages for one purpose or another might be useful for a rebuttal against a view point you disagree with. To use it as a basis for persecution is to me heresy if not downright blasphemy. The literal use of an English version is a few levels below actually studying the inherent messages.
At this stage for the purposes of Faith and Belief the citing of this piece of English or that piece of English as a basis for proving that one side or the other is right or wrong, I would assert ‘Does Not Really Matter’ They are useful in debates on who wrote What, Why, Where or When and for What Reason, and also if ‘They’ wrote it or someone else. Or was it a combined job?
In this, these debates are on the same level as to whether some personality out of History was as Good, Bad, Adept, Inept as they are traditionally painted. Whether they were actually ‘There’, ‘Here’ at such a time. And so forth.
In cannot be argued that such discussions do not add to the layers of circumstances and history is already filled with commentaries one way or another.
When however it comes to the basics of The Christian Faith, the question to ask is. Do they add or detract to the evidence of a Jesus Christ and his activities? This is the basic line for any Christian. Therefore, onto the Historical Evidence of Jesus, most likely born in Nazareth, Palestine at the early years of 1st Century AD/CE.
To summarise there is evidence of a man out of Galilee who was crucified in what I would call a political expediency between the Roman Authorities, The Court of the Client King and the religious council the Sanhedrin, the latter having the power to bring out a mob at the figurative click of the fingers. What no side wanted was another figurehead for another movement, particularly one who was not preaching armed resistance; the Romans knew how to deal with a call to arms.
In their independent works both Jewish historian Josephus and Roman historian Tacitus, make relative passing reference to Jesus. At this stage of history of the area from Europe to the Middel East the majority of surviving documentation comes from within the Roman Empire’s boundaries and thus would cover a large number of issues, events and personalities. What would happen in one small region of the edges would attract minimal attention at the time. Which is why what we can call historical evidence is so sparse.
It is enough though.
Enough for a Faith you say?
Well, let me place before you the reasoning thus far.
In One Theistic Overview I argued as no one can physically prove there is no God I am at Liberty chose to belief in God. In the Historical Perspectives I can place the Old and New Testaments are documentations which indicate there are bases for the origins of my faith and part of the foundation of that faith. I also cite there is evidence for an Historical Jesus.
Thus upon these the case for my belief is founded.
But you ask. This seems to be slender stuff. You seem to talk of absences of solid evidence and also uncertainties as firm foundations. Are these not paradoxical, and in consequence subject to doubt? There is actually another perspective to bring back into the focus. The Scientific.
Let us continue to share the journey.
Scientific Perspectives
Warning: Not simple. This is long in itself. Convoluted. It’s The Nature of The Concept.
Second Warning. Be prepared for at least one ‘Where is he going with this interlude?’
The Cosmological Overview was an initial introduction to scope and size of the issues involved when discussing Faith and Beliefs. Rather than go straight to Science in more details it seemed neater to take on the Historical approach to establish the next part of the evidence foundation. This done, let us return to address the Scientific side of the subject.
As we know Science is a word which covers a vast number of subjects, all playing their part in the knowledge which we utilise for better or for worse in Humanity’s turbulent voyage. Rather than try and pick through each branch and in turn the associated subjects, a task which would take up at least one year’s worth of at least weekly posts, and that would be skimming the surface I intend to look at two scales.
The smallest, being the sub-atomic and the largest which takes us back to the Cosmological.
Here we encounter the counter-intuitive to our daily experiences, the parallels to the challenges Western folk of the last century have faced regarding the acceptance of a Supreme Deity. The world of Physics and the World of Theistic Belief both contain facets which do not fit into our Daily World. Challenges and reactions criss-cross. I assert there are parallels, there are commonalties.
Let me just throw a few everyday questions out there. Physics first. Religion second.
How can Light be both a particle and a wave of energy? Two aspects at once? What really is this Time-Space thing; we are attuned to Length – Width – Depth, and doesn’t Time just flow in one direction anyway? Things get ‘Old’ don’t they? And what’s this about 11 or 20 dimensions- how does that figure?
Where is this ‘God’? Why doesn’t ‘This God’ stop wars? Why are bad things happening? And to come back to The Science side- how can One Being have complete domination over one galaxy of an average of 100 million stars; that’s before we started on the billions of galaxies concept?
Those are questions which can crop up in the minds of everyday people who chance upon these subjects. There are though no easy answers. It is part of our fate to forever come up against questions whose answers do not seem to be on any horizon.
Just to illustrate what ‘we’ are up against.
(Before I start there is a body of opinion which is dismissive of Wikipedia as an information source. Whatever your views on that topic, Wikipedia it is a good source of illustrating the depth, length and width of a topic.)
Science
I typed in the phrase ‘Unsolved Problems’. The category Natural Sciences was sub divided into seven separate categories: The category ‘Mathematics’ into four. For our collective sakes I will go no further. You should be able to gauge the scope the issue from those details alone, and that’s before we consider the subject of divergent views on how something was ‘solved’
Theism
A search under Theism suggests a vastness of topics. I narrowed it down to Christian – Systemic Theology and also Constructive Theology (which is a relatively new approach.) And the result was Ten different categories. And as with Physics I did look but will go no further. Feel free to do so, but make time.
Yes, since ‘Scientific Perspectives’ was typed out nearly Five Hundred words in and he’s still not got the nub of the matter.
Of course not. Neither subject is simple. Neither subject can be compacted into one small fold-open pamphlet. Normally anything serious on either requires ‘Papers’ as in a ‘Paper On…’ and more likely entire books and you are still skimming the true surface.
Complexity upon Complexity
Volumes, upon volumes of works on both topics. Writers argue back and forth. There are whole trends of developments, re-appraisals, new lines of thought. Admittedly I am not aware of there being a theological version of the Large Hadron Collider, so Physics does have an ‘physical’ edge there. But ‘physical’ edge in Religion? We will return to this issue after we have considered some more issues still open for debate and see how they interact in both arenas.
Creation (as in Of the Universe)
Currently The Big Bang holds sway, whether it was 14 billion years ago, or even more is up for debate. For the majority of folk, the concept of there being No Time No Space just a very compact ‘item’ and nothing else is counter-intuitive. We cannot comprehend the situation. Try and you end most likely up with a ‘Why’ or a ‘Well How…’. And yet we, in the main, accept this sort of.
Since we ‘sort of’ accept this, for some of us the notion that a Being also beyond our imagination effectively said ‘Let There Be Light’ therefore seems a reasonable opinion to hold. After all we all already into the realms of the unimaginable No Time, No Space realm, so what is wrong with believing in ‘Someone’ started it?
Yes it is a type of Creationism. In purely physical / physics terms so is the Big Bang. Creationism as ‘It All Started’
What you might call Creationism in a biblical sense itself is divided into various schools, from the basic Seven, literal Days, along the paths of ‘Seven’ being allegorical, into an area of ‘episodes’ of Creation. The whole displaying sophistication of thought keeping a pace with discoveries. In fact, as with the science of Cosmology, Creationism can be evolving. Bear in mind not so long ago it was accepted in scientific circles that there was just one galaxy, revolving to stop spinning apart into the vastness of space. Now we know more.
Therefore, since we do not know, absolutely, positively, completely everything there is to know, to hold to the belief that ‘God’ created the Universe is a valid opinion. The Hows, The Whys and The What-Exactly is the Universe; well, we are all still working on that, and most likely will be forever doing so.
In The Quantum World and its Cousin in Mystery – Theism.
Quantum Mechanics and Quantum Physics are not new discoveries, albeit it that they made their larger appearance in the Modern Physics of the 20th Century. Their applications in the modern world move allegorically hand in hand with the advance in computers, one complimenting the other, firstly bringing transistors and by now advances into devices relying on computers until we stand on the edge of Quantum AI and a wealth of possibilities.
The studies of the subject and the explorations are quite a different level. It is here we confront the realm of the subatomic particles and their properties, or their place in the construct of matter. As the search progresses questions arise which are illustrated in complex mathematical equations and references to a number of aspects which in turn have their own mathematics, (illustrated dramatically in films by rapid use of chalk and a very big board). String Theory, M-Theory, Extra Dimensions are but a few concepts which are commonly discussed but leave the ordinary person struggling to grasp their concepts. You can opt for standing back in awe and saying ‘Wow’ though.
Theism has been around for a lot longer and appears to be dogged by a pattern which Humanity follows without learning. In myriad forms it attempted to bring a social code to what would have been an otherwise chaotic situation and has endeavoured to bring a means of comprehension to the mysteries which confound us. And yet flawed creatures that we are, we argue to the point of persecution and war over meanings and supremacy of one belief system over another. Thus, Theism like the rest of Human efforts is tarnished. Which when you consider the misuse computer systems have been put too indicates the problem lies with Humanity. But more about that when in the next post we consider Theological and Social issues. At this stage I am going to make an attempt to consider The Parallel with Quantum.
This being that the further we go into the study of Quantum the more challenges arise, which is very similar when delving into a belief system. In this case Christianity. It is simple enough to believe in a God, a Son of God, and if your beliefs go in that direction A Holy Spirit. The problems arise when you go deeper into those difficult ethical questions such as
How Active is God in our Lives, and thus How?
Why do bad things keep on happening to the innocent and the vulnerable?
If God is suffering with Us, just how does that work. What does that mean?
Where did God come from?
Just what is God’s plan or purpose?
I could go on and on…and on.
Theologians have been battling with these and the objections to their suggestions for centuries (and some of them taking time out to discuss the mysteries of the cosmos. The concept of other worlds has been up for debate for millennia, 1,500 years in Christianity ).
Therefore I contend these two Disciplines which are replete with The Counter-Intuitive mirror each other, often coming along with a ‘There must be a…because this indicates there is….’.
And thus there is no shame in saying ‘I don’t know’ though just leaving it like that and shrugging does not necessarily apply to the entire following of a belief system. WE keep on keeping on. Our religion is not moribund, which stopped somewhere a thousand years ago. Not so.
Miracles
(Possibly the Theistic Version of the Large Hadron Collider?)
In some respects, most of the previous observations and postulations could be construed as a build-up to this. A balanced reason why ‘Miracles’ as recorded in The New Testament can be viewed by ‘The Believer’ as credible acts.
By this point you will be aware that as far as I perceive, within the enormity and complexity of Existence from the smallest particle (currently The Quark?) to the massive walls which are groups of groups of galaxies (eg Great Sloan Wall) to say something ‘Cannot Happen’ is not a Definite. We, Here, Now are nowhere, anywhere close to beginning to know Everything.
In this frame of mindset I consider the following as examples:
The Immaculate Conception (Virgin Birth)- Invoking the biological process of Parthenogenesis is taking a big risk. There would be a lot of complaints and objections. Fair enough, I am just saying Sexual Reproduction is not the only means about. Really I should play it safe, cite general mythical traditions and those of the Abrahamic works. Then consider the various Christian writings on the subject and hint at the allegorical.
Not going to do that. I chose to take the literal option that a divine force caused within Mary’s ovaries conception to begin. I will also look to my brothers and sisters in Abrahamic Faith in Islam to quote from an English translation of the Quaran “So will it be! Your Lord says, ‘It is easy for Me. And so will We make him a sign for humanity and a mercy from Us.’ It is a matter ˹already˺ decreed.” (Please note in Islam, Jesus is a revered prophet). (To brothers and sister in faith as Muslims my apologies for any inadvertent errors or mis-quoting)
I do so, because I can see no specific reason why a Being beyond our own level of existence could not do this. And that is that. There may be some impossible concepts out there, but it seems the more we seek knowledge the more we find That Isn’t So.
Resurrection
Since declaring my belief in the Immaculate Conception there would be an element of inconsistency in not having the same faith in the Resurrection. And naturally taking the same pathway.
For this is where a person takes that Leap of Faith.
Crucifixion was a hideous punishment, a slow death by several means. Imagine trying to haul yourself up by stretched upper limbs just to breath. I could try to stumble through suggestions of a body going into shock and being mistaken for death. I could suggest a type of coma. I could go off on enough tangents to have medical professionals reading this howling ‘It Doesn’t Work Like That!’….’And anyway those legs were broken, legs were always deliberately broken during crucifixion,’
Once more. Not going to. This is where that Leap of Faith comes in. Belief. Irrespective.
Tell me, dear reader. Do you believe in Something? Irrespective of what some might call Evidence to the Contrary. Do you believe in Something you cannot see or hold? Something which at times is hard to hold on to, and yet you keep on coming back to there or here? Just Something.
I’m not going to ask you what that might be. The only time I will have a problem with you is if your belief is used as vehicle for Hate, Oppression, Discrimination, Intolerance, Irrefutable Lies and Distortions and rest of the toxins we try to use to dignify and justify our blatant flaws as we set ourselves down the road to conflict and harm.
Summary at the end of Part I.
So here I pause.
In the next part it is my intention to move into the Ethereal realms of Theology, Nature of Beliefs, Overviews of Theisms and Social Implications. The embracing of Belief and the Condemnation of misuses and abuses in attempts to justify evil.
Thanks for reading this far.
(PS: This looks OK as a post, but I cannot be held responsible for what WP’s various gubbinz will do to the final product)
……
Writing Despite Computers and Programmes 